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August 24, 2005

Comments

Interesting essay by the Jollyblogger. I guess my own inclination it to work with the language people are already familiar with. So I'm not eager to ditch the language of a "personal relationship with Jesus."

But I do like to point out to people how their other relationships work. Relationships involve mutuality, trust, reciprocity, and communication. And all these things normally and effectively occur within the context of shared stories, common traditions, larger bonds of family and friendship, and through the exchange of words, signs, and tokens.

It would be an odd thing to say that I have a close personal relationship with someone who doesn't reciprocate, with whom there is no shared history, or when there is no listening, no receiving of hugs or handshakes, no sitting together in contentment.

But, if all of this is part and parcel of what it means to have a personal relationship, then it is also true of our relationship with God in Christ. We probably all recognize that the Spirit brings the words of Jesus to us through the Scriptures, but, at least in the Reformed tradition, it has always been the case that the emphasis is on the reading and preaching of the Word as the means by which the Spirit makes Jesus present to us.

This can be extended by analogy to all the other biblically-rooted words and stories that together constitute the texture and fabric of our relation with Christ: the encouragement and rebuke of our brothers and sisters, the pastor's word of absolution, the common prayers of the saints, the tangible word of baptism and the Lord's Supper, and so on. From there we can add the whole fellowship of believers as embodying the love of Jesus, word made flesh: the dinner make for the family with a newborn, sitting beside the sleeping person in hospital, visiting those who are shut in, providing library books to children, and so on, all in the name of Christ.

So, if the Gospel offers a personal relationship with Jesus, then, it sees to me, that must be a relationship grounded in all the ways in which we relate to one another as God's church, united by his Spirit as we are gathered as Christ's own Body around his word and sacraments, and all that must flow from that.

If want to hear Jesus I listen to his word to me from his ministers and other believers. If I want to share in Jesus' story, I trust what he's done for me and enter into it through baptism. If I want to eat with Jesus, I share his eucharistic table and the table of the poor. If I want to touch and be touched by Jesus, I reach out to his people in need and receive the service of others.

At any rate, I think that rightly understood a "personal relationship with Jesus" is the opposite of Gnostic, but only known as such to the eyes of faith.

That being said, I do think David's point is sound with regard to what such a "personal relationship" has become for many Christians, under the shaping influences of modern individualism, pragmatism, and the like. In many respects, such a evangelical spirituality of existential interiority, tinged with moralism, when taken to an extreme, has a lot in common not only with gnosticism, but also liberalism.

But I do hope a renewed sense of the church as Christ's body, marked out by a shared stories and practices, grounding its missional role in the world, would do a lot to correct the imbalance.

Well, I've rambled on too much. Thanks for the link to a thought-provoking post.

It's not surprising that this is a "hot" topic as it all sounds like very American, pietistic, individualistic escapism to me. Relationships with Jesus never happen in a vacuum. The more important question should be what is our relationship to the Christian Community around us; not just in worship and devotion but in thinking and living through the challenges secular society throws at us. One can never take on the call for justice, stewardship, economy, or worship for that matter on one's own.

Or was community building just a passing phase of the 70's?

~bgr

The abuse of the idea "a personal relationship with Jesus" has been fairly well worked out in all of this. However, it remains an important way of thinking and living for believers in Christ. It is also increasingly emphasized today that our personal relationship with Jesus takes place as members of his body, the church, with all that involves. I agree with that. But I think we must nonetheless retain a proper and biblical idea of our own individual relationship with Jesus Christ. The Bible does deal with individuals and their relationship with the Triune God.

I think the best paradigm for "personal relationship with Jesus" is that of "disciple." I don't find that I often speak of my "personal relationship with Jesus" so much as that I will think and say that "I am a disciple of Jesus himself. Jesus is my Lord and Master, and I am His disciple." What I mean is that Jesus is alive today and that He relates personally to those who trust in Him. When Jesus ascended into heaven, he did not leave the scene. As he pointed out to the Eleven in John chapters 14-16, between his first and second advents Jesus ministers to us personally -- just as he did with his disciples during his earthly life -- through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. As Paul says in 2 Cor. 3, "Now the Lord is the Spirit." So I have a personal relationship with Jesus in substantially the same way that Peter and James and John and the other disciples had a personal relationship with Jesus while he walked on the earth. This is made possible by the ministry of the Spirit, whom Jesus sent.

What are some of the emphases of this way of thinking? I suggest at least these: a) I should think of Jesus as my present-tense living Lord. I am to lift up my heart to him as One who presently receives me and who ministers to me in real ways through the Spirit; b) Although I am a member of his church on earth -- and so my relationships with fellow believers and pastors is important (according to Christ's appointment) -- none of these either mediates or supercedes my "personal relationship with Jesus"; c) I am blessed by the means of grace Christ has appointed, but it is Jesus himself who blesses me through them via the ministry of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing automatic or technical in the way I receive grace. It is a personal ministry by my living, gracious Lord; d)My personal relationship with Jesus does not minimize the ordinary means of grace. It does not mean that I get extra-biblical revelation -- I do not. But it does mean that my attitude towards my Lord Jesus is not and should never be indirect, distant, or merely notional.

None of this is remotely gnostic, despite surface similarities. The essential difference is the personal nature of my relationship with the divine. I do not have a "spiritual" relationship with Christ. I have a "Spiritual" relationship with Christ. The capital S makes all the difference. It is not a mode or a technique or a "soul-competency" (what a wretched notion -- thanks, David, for exposing it). The Spirit is a Person, through whom Christ mysteriously relates to me personally, so that He is my Lord and I am His disciple, and I thus have freedom to relate to Him personally.

I'm not sure why you'd say that relationships with pastors don't mediate your personal relationship with Christ.

When I hear Christ's message preached to me by the pastor, as he has internalized the words of scripture and explained them to me in my life-situation, are they not the Word's of Christ himself as mediated though the appointed pastor?

I would say that the pastor ministers the words of Christ rather than mediates them. I need a mediator to someone to whom I have no personal access of my own. Because I am a sinner, I needed the Son to come be my Mediator to the Father. I have personal access to Jesus through the means of grace, even though I am so very grateful for the human ministry that makes this possible. I hope that is helpful in clarifying my meaning.

Thank you all for writing these helpful comments. When it comes to Christianity, I know next to nothing but I'm learning all the time from your material.

I'm afraid I find the distinctions being made between 'mediate', 'by means of' and 'via' unclear.

Do we have a 'personal relationship' with the father? If so, is it not 'mediated' by Jesus?

Are you saying that our relationship with Jesus is 'mediated by' or only 'via' or 'by means of' the Spirit?

And then how do those distictions play into the way human agents (pastors) are means by which means of grace (preaching) are set before us? If the human agency is ordinarily necessary to make the access you have through the means of grace 'possible', what is gained by avoiding the idea that they are 'inbetween' or mediate your relationship with Jesus? At the same time, I would not deny that that relationship is not personal or that it is only 'indirect' of course.

Good stuff, Rick, on the whole. It nicely helps fill out the picture further.

Paul,

It is the indirectness that I am at pains to avoid. In my view, there is often too much emphasis placed on one's relationship with the preacher -- how impressive one thinks he is, dynamic, informative, helpful, etc. -- whereas many believers have little or no direct consciousness of their relationship with the Lord. This is seen in the lack of prayer that is so crippling to our churches today. Also, if the pastor lets them down (as he is bound to do in some way or another), their "faith" is shaken. My own passion as a preacher is for people to enter into personal discipleship with our Lord Jesus. That will make them productive, faithful Christians with staying power, it will strengthen them immensely, and it will glorify God. Obviously, pastors play a huge role in believers' lives and it is vitally important that they be faithful. But the more believers have a conscious sense of serving Jesus and receiving saving grace from Jesus via the ordinary means of grace, the better and more biblical will be their Christian experience. This is quite another thing from the "me and my personal experience of Jesus" mentality that has rightly been identified as hurting the life of the church and our interest in the affairs of the world. But Christians who consider themselves disciples of Jesus will be mindful of the duties Jesus has pressed upon them, very much including the communion of the saints and the work of the kingdom of God in the world.

Now, is my relationship with the Father mediated by the Son? Most certainly -- Eph. 2:18: we come to the Father through the Son by the Spirit. This does not keep me from having a "personal relationship" with the Father. Indeed, Christ's ministry makes me a dear child of the Father. But I dare say that the analogy between the Son's ministry vis a vis the Father and the minister's ministry vis a vis Christ is a poor one. Christ propitiates the wrath of the Father and provides the effectual intercession that brings me to the Father. This is what I emphasize is saying that He is a true mediator. The pastor's ministry does not remove the actual obstacles separating me from God and his intercession is not the effectual one that makes my relationship with God possible. Hence I speak of the pastor's ministry and Christs mediation. I hope that is a helpful distinction.

That's helpful, thanks.

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